Introduction

The Log (e-mails)

Actually it's probably Kavort with Knoppix ...

Actually it's probably Kavort with Knoppix ...

%RA1% a very safe thing to do, esp. the 1st time. %ra1%

a very safe thing to do, esp. the 1st time.

%RA1%

%ra1%

We now know he used knx-hdinstall & that it worked. 

We now know he used knx-hdinstall & that it worked. 

too hard to explain with out doing it again. But essentially the website you steered me to implied it was a no-brainer and even with two brain cells still active, I had trouble figuring out the options.

too hard to explain with out doing it again. But essentially the website you steered me to implied it was a no-brainer and even with two brain cells still active, I had trouble figuring out the options.

"Linux" was the right choice, esp. "ext3" -- ext3 is a "journalling" fs based on ext2, the long-time std. As I think I mentioned on the phone, "journalling" means it keeps a scratch file (journal) of unwritten writes; thus if there is an abnormal shutdown -- pwr. failure, pulled plug, reset switch, etc. -- no information is lost. (MS' NTFS also is journalling.)

I will try to keep a record from now, ...
basically instructions and explanations of options are non-existant.

This page & its parent are an attempt to fix that

As to file systems, "Linux" was the right choice, esp. "ext3" -- ext3 is a "journalling" fs based on ext2, the long-time std. "Journalling" means it keeps a scratch file (journal) of unwritten writes; thus if there is an abnormal shutdown -- pwr. failure, pulled plug, reset switch, etc. -- no information is lost. (MS' NTFS also is journalling.)

You should always (, always, always) create a swap partn., the rule of thumb is RAM x 1.5. If you didn't, it can be done afterwards w/o re-install.

I know a swap partition should be made. When partitioning the drive, the only option given is whether a partition shoulld be "flagged as bootable". Yes, partitions can be designated as primary and logical but I saw no option to make one a swap. (I made one about 1 gig for that purpose)

You should always (, always, always) create a swap partn., the rule of thumb is RAM x 1.5. If you didn't, it can be done afterwards w/o re-install.

Again, this is tough to explain in retrospect. You really should attempt it yourself. Nothing like personal experience <g>

This has already been fixed, & should be written up. 

This has already been fixed (by telephone), & should be written up. 

"Linux Online!" has a beginners course that used to be called "Linux 101", it is still available at: http://www.linux.org/lessons/beginner/index.html Lessons 1 & 2 cover a Debian install. I haven't (yet) tried to walk through one using their instructions.

"Linux Online!" has a beginners course that used to be called "Linux 101", it is still available at: 
http://www.linux.org/lessons/beginner/index.html
Lessons 1 & 2 cover a Debian install. I haven't (yet) tried to walk through one using their instructions.

One of the rites of passage into Linux traditionally has been multiple installs. However, if we, the Linux "Community", are going to build a user base to the point where it will snowball & Dell etc. will start making Linux a std. option, then we must find ways to make this easier. We already looked for a local LUG for you to get help from, & I doubt you are going to drive to Houston just to see us & get an install done on a Wed. night. So that leaves doing it yourself w/ web, e-mail, & (weekend) phone support. The reason I suggested Mandrake as a possibility, is its ease of installation; however since you have done something else successfully, I think we can forget that one for a while.

One of the rites of passage into Linux traditionally has been multiple installs. However, if we, the Linux "Community", are going to build a user base to the point where it will snowball & Dell etc. will start making Linux a std. option, then we must find ways to make this easier. We already looked for a local LUG for you to get help from, & I doubt you are going to drive to Houston just to see us & get an install done on a Wed. night. So that leaves doing it yourself w/ web, e-mail, & (weekend) phone support. The reason I suggested Mandrake as a possibility, is its ease of installation; however since you have done Knoppix successfully, I think we can forget that one for a while.

Original response as a list:

• i.e. the Linux box will show up in Network Neighborhood

i.e. the Linux box will show up in Network Neighborhood

And as a table:

Great! BTW, what's wrong w/ 90 sec.??? I just went through a 9 min. boot (abnormal) w/ W2k

Great! BTW, what's wrong w/ 90 sec.??? I just went through a 9 min. boot (abnormal) w/ W2k

KNOPPIX_V3.3-2003-11-14-DE.iso KNOPPIX_V3.3-2003-11-14-EN.iso

• KNOPPIX_V3.3-2003-11-14-DE.iso
• KNOPPIX_V3.3-2003-11-14-EN.iso

I downloaded the english version. Storey warned of German preferences being the default.

Now I see the source of my confusion -- Knoppix is Debian based but not Debian itself & shouldn't be called that. The reason it gave you no choice was that the 60 Gb was disconnected during the install, so Linux & LILO had no knowledge of XP's existence. If you re-do your install, leave the 60 in & XP should automatically be in your LILO choices. I have only learned how to configure GRUB, the newer boot loader. W/ LILO, you find its text configuration file (/etc/lilo.conf) & add the appropriate lines -- easier said than done:

BTW, Knoppix is Debian based but not Debian itself & shouldn't be called that.

When the OS finally loads and a user and password are called for, the screen says DEBIAN, with the little Debian swirly logo thingie.

The reason it gave you no choice was that the 60 Gb was disconnected during the install, so Linux & LILO had no knowledge of XP's existence. If you re-do your install, leave the 60 in & XP should automatically be in your LILO choices. I have only learned how to configure GRUB, the newer boot loader. W/ LILO, you find its text configuration file (/etc/lilo.conf) & add the appropriate lines -- easier said than done:

agreed

But later he says:

I am not comfortable enough with the insatall program to do so with a drive that we CAN NOT lose in the machine. I will research editiing the config file. wfa

This is an important comment.  Even though I might trust the install script with my precious XP installation, that doesn't mean I have any right to ask someone else to.  If we want to persuade people to use (GNU)/Linux, then we must remove the causes for fear, as well as the technical difficulties. 

see previous notes

see previous notes

Actually it's probably Kavort with Knoppix ...

Actually it's probably Kavort with Knoppix ...

%META:TOPICINFO{author="RickArchibald" date="1073866860" format="1.0" version="1.1"}% %META:TOPICPARENT{name="KnoppixHDInstall"}%

Knoppix Install Log 1

%RA1% a very safe thing to do, esp. the 1st time. %ra1%

Booted with Knoppix disk (new 11-19-03 image). Tried to run knoppix-install and knx-hdinstall.

%RA1% What happend w/ those scripts? As I said before, I have never used them; but I have recently read about them & a bit though them. %ra1%

We now know he used knx-hdinstall & that it worked. 

too hard to explain with out doing it again. But essentially the website you steered me to implied it was a no-brainer and even with two brain cells still active, I had trouble figuring out the options.

Wish I could have have helped you through it. On the other hand, you probably learned more this way. One thing you could do for me if you were willing, is to keep a step-by-step diary of your experience (the TWiki comes to mind). A record of your experience could be invaluable in writing those instructions.

"Linux" was the right choice, esp. "ext3" -- ext3 is a "journalling" fs based on ext2, the long-time std. As I think I mentioned on the phone, "journalling" means it keeps a scratch file (journal) of unwritten writes; thus if there is an abnormal shutdown -- pwr. failure, pulled plug, reset switch, etc. -- no information is lost. (MS' NTFS also is journalling.)

You should always (, always, always) create a swap partn., the rule of thumb is RAM x 1.5. If you didn't, it can be done afterwards w/o re-install.

This has already been fixed, & should be written up. 

"Linux Online!" has a beginners course that used to be called "Linux 101", it is still available at: http://www.linux.org/lessons/beginner/index.html Lessons 1 & 2 cover a Debian install. I haven't (yet) tried to walk through one using their instructions.

Finally the CD copied to the HD. Next were choices about smail at system boot, secure shell server at system boot, samba at system boot, cups, kdm, host name, DHCP , IP Address , etc etc. I think I just answered yes to all. What do I care, it can be reformatted easy enough.

As you say it can be redone easily enough.

One of the rites of passage into Linux traditionally has been multiple installs. However, if we, the Linux "Community", are going to build a user base to the point where it will snowball & Dell etc. will start making Linux a std. option, then we must find ways to make this easier. We already looked for a local LUG for you to get help from, & I doubt you are going to drive to Houston just to see us & get an install done on a Wed. night. So that leaves doing it yourself w/ web, e-mail, & (weekend) phone support. The reason I suggested Mandrake as a possibility, is its ease of installation; however since you have done something else successfully, I think we can forget that one for a while.

• maybe smail (not needed, on the other hand, what can it hurt)
• yes secure shell server - very useful -- allows you to log in externally
• yes samba - server & client -- allows fs access to & from Win machines
• i.e. the Linux box will show up in Network Neighborhood
• maybe cups - for printing, you probably want this
• ??? kdm - I think you need this for X start up, I'm not sure
• YES host name - in the Unix world, every computer has a name, often fanciful
• no DHCP, the server (dhcpd) - see below
• either DHCP, the client (dhcpcd, dhclient(?))
• or IP Address

DHCP - Dynamic Host Configuration Protocol - is a way to have your router, if it has the ability, or other computer on your LAN take care of assigning local IP's (198.168.x.y) to your various machines. Some routers (like mine) allow you to fix those IP's based on the ethernet cards' MAC addresses. The alternative is to assign the IP's to each machine by hand. So either assign an IP or enable the DHCP client; do not enable the DHCP server.

Vis a vis ssh (secure shell), I have set you both up w/ a accounts on "Plato", my little server, and you can log in to it over the 'net. The Linux command would be: ssh ... You could execute it from a regular [Ctrl-Alt-F_] console, or a KDE "Konsole". You could also d/l a free MS Windows program called PuTTY? (Google: "putty") & gain access that way. It is easy to use & has good docs.

You also could make me an account on your Linux box & then I could check problems directly.

We then shut down and test booted. It loaded no problem - although we were not impressed with the 90 seconds start up time. And as warned, we had a German keyboard.

Great! BTW, what's wrong w/ 90 sec.??? I just went through a 9 min. boot (abnormal) w/ W2k

When you d/l'd the iso, what was its name?: KNOPPIX_V3.3-2003-11-14-DE.iso KNOPPIX_V3.3-2003-11-14-EN.iso As you can see from the samples above, it comes in German & English versions. Of course, it could be that the English version uses a German keyboard when installed on an hd.

I put the other drive back in. The bios was instructed to boot to the 20 Gig ( now a slave and loaded with Knoppix). Knoppix (debian) loaded up with NO CHOICE to boot to windows. ALTHOUGH one of the first messages on the screen was "Loading LILO" . I guess I need to know how to configure LILO to offer me the choice of systems.

Now I see the source of my confusion -- Knoppix is Debian based but not Debian itself & shouldn't be called that. The reason it gave you no choice was that the 60 Gb was disconnected during the install, so Linux & LILO had no knowledge of XP's existence. If you re-do your install, leave the 60 in & XP should automatically be in your LILO choices. I have only learned how to configure GRUB, the newer boot loader. W/ LILO, you find its text configuration file (/etc/lilo.conf) & add the appropriate lines -- easier said than done:

• http://www.girishg.net/dual.htm is short, but possibly helpful.
• http://lists.debian.org/debian-user/2001/debian-user-200107/msg01177.html may actually be useful (at least to me)

[note tldp="The Linux Documentation Project" -- about as "official" as docs get]

• http://www.tldp.org/HOWTO/LILO.html At least the English is OK
• http://tldp.org/HOWTO/Linux+WinNT.html At least the English is OK
• http://tldp.org/HOWTO/Multiboot-with-LILO.html mostly good -- some off point
• http://tldp.org/HOWTO/Multiboot-with-LILO-3.html the key section
• http://tldp.org/HOWTO/Install-Strategies/x72.html good bkgrd info
• http://24.238.132.5/s1-grub-liloconf.html I moved a copy to be visible

Here is where it would be nice for me to log on, I could check & edit a proprosed new lilo file. I think your best strategy is to make a quick stab at fixing the ptoblem & then fall back to a re-install.

I shut down and rebooted to the bios setup. Switched it back to the boot to 60 gig first. The machine loads XP now. We need to know how to get the dual system choice.

see previous notes

But at least that 20 gig hd is loaded and ready to dance with Debian.

-Bill

Actually it's probably Kavort with Knoppix ...